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July 29, 2014

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Letter to the editor:

Votes worth more than money

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After all that was said and done, Republican politicians must think about this fact — there are more poor people in America than rich. There are more people who are disenfranchised than there are favored.

Do not look down on them. Do not patronize them. Do not insult their intelligence with pretense. Above all, do not marginalize them.

They have power.

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  1. It's politically fashionable to identify with the poor. Obama does it all the time. He champions the poor and middle class and demonizes the rich and well to do. Of course, those who swoon over everything Obama do the exact same. Just remember, the same day we learned 4 American heroes were murdered in Benghazi, Libya, Obama saw fit to hit the campaign trail to pick up big dollar contributions from his rich liberal fund raisers for his reelection. His total sum of wisdom on the tragedy while campaigning for reelection: "We hit a bump in the road."

    CarmineD

  2. There is no sense in attacking anyone who is simply stating the obvious. It's unbecoming to grown men/women.

    You are obsessed with numbers, so let's look at them:

    Immigration - 71% of Hispanic vote
    Women - 55%
    Unmarried and young single women - 67%. (This group comprised 23% of the electorate. They thought their issues are more important than the economy!).

    http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/nov...

    Republicans must reassess their politics to stay relevant. If they continue with this attitude the political balance will be lost.

    If living in your own world is your secret to happiness, congratulations!

  3. Nancy - Now you've done it! Your letter set off the class warfare alarm at refNV's house before 3AM.

    The Bush tax cuts bestowed class welfare on the top income earners. And while the Republicans liken these folks to the goose that laid the golden egg, they have done a miserable job in their alleged roles as "job creators". After ten tax years we know they are ineffective at creating jobs, but accomplished at adding to the national debt.

    The next few weeks will give us a clear indication of how far the Republicans will go to protect the 2% and where the 98% stand on the GOP priority list.

  4. $250,000 per year is not a millionaire and billionaire. It's middle class in the current times. And if Obama and his minnows can't appreciate that fact, thy're not as smart as they think they are.

    CarmineD

  5. There continues to be much hatred expressed toward the 'wealthy' and much skepticism about their role as 'job creators'.

    The gap between the 'wealthy' and the middle class has grown and statistics show that...and it would be good and helpful if we could lessen that gap.

    That said, I have worked for several private companies and all of them were started by and owned and operated by people who had a good deal more wealth than I did or do.

    Unless you work for the government, most of the jobs that exist in the private sector do seem to be created and maintained by people who have wealth.

    If the wealthy don't create jobs, where is it that Nancy Agustin, Jim Weber and others on the Progressive side of things think jobs come from and where should they come from?

    Michael

  6. Jeff,

    I understand you disagree with me, but please be careful how you classify me. I have never been a jerk to people who I disagree with, unless your definition of 'jerk' is someone who has the temerity to disagree with you.

    Michael

  7. "This is all due to people like you and future and Casler and DiFazio - Americans just don't like the lack of knowledge and respect you folks show your neighbors."

    More hate talk from the supposed party of tolerance and transparency. You accuse those who disagree with you of the exact failings you eminate yourself. I call it the joy of hate by the supposed democratic tolerant. No wonder GOP won the House the last 8 of 10 elections since 1992.
    CarmineD

  8. "At max, the extra tax paid by top wage earners will net less than 60 billion a year which doesn't appreciably reduce our $1.1 trillion(1,100 billion) dollar debt."

    Since when is $60 billion chump change? I suppose that makes $440 million for PBS really trivial.

    For the umpteenth and, hopefully final time, I have NEVER NEVER NEVER even intimated that increasing taxes on the wealthiest was close to a complete solution to the debt problem. It is a worthwhile beginning though. It not only raises revenue, it means that we don't need to borrow $60 billion to pay for upper class welfare.

  9. CBO [Congrssional Budget Office] says tax receipts for fiscal year ended September 30, 2012 [despite extending Bush era tax cuts and the putrid economic growth] went up to $2.5 Trillion. President Obama and his minnows don't want us to know this so he can push through his anti-rich tax hikes. Even individual tax payments [not businesses] are up $233 Billion over the last two years or 26 percent. Won't hear that from President Obama and his democratic minnows. Fact check it.

    CarmineD

  10. "But you still are with those people."

    Ah the joy of hate. "those" people. Class warfare par excellence.

    CarmineD

  11. w
    e
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    s

  12. Gee, the leftists state the obvious, again. Name me one country on Planet Earth where the rich out number the "poor." What a sad excuse for playing the "divide & conquer" card. Once again, I see why, with leftist teachers, the public school system is such a failure. Instead of "education," these folks practice "indoctrination."

  13. Very important words of wisdom, Ms. Agustin.

    And as you can see from some of the commenters, your article has indeed fell on deaf ears.

    They don't learn. And it really looks like they will never learn.

    It's up to us to teach them.

    When the next election comes.

    The Tea/Republican Party is closer to going the way of the dinosaurs. Extinction.

    Funny thing is they are doing it themselves, but love to point fingers always elsewhere.

  14. Nancy,

    Your right in presenting your numbers to counter the argument. Very good post.

  15. Now that the "votes" are in, and all the campaigning is done, let us hope our American Lawmakers immediately get to work and get the job done this time around. They all have run out of chances to prove to the public their commitment and meddle.

    The American public can no longer tolerate the political bickering, obstruction, and gridlock that has become the operating standard in past decades. The United States of America needs to have a balanced budget passed, needs the immigration process streamlined (allow QUALIFIED immigrants and eliminate the excessive application processing time), and address those banksters and Wall Street gamers who crashed our economy. Many readers could likely add to this list of what needs to be "PRIORITY" legislation.

    Have to say that it is refreshing to read the paper and finding some now elected political candidates talking about it(revisiting their official positions) and beginning to voice their commitment towards addressing these issues. We'll all see how our "Votes are worth more than money". Keep it coming!

    Blessings and Peace,
    Star

  16. Freeman -

    You say "The plan even lacks democratic support in the house" because 20 out of 190 democrats voted against it? That's a stretchy spin, even for you.

  17. Jeff,

    I have and do advocate for public financing of campaigns. Both parties are a slave to the money of powerful interests. It's not just the R's.

    We have a thriving export economy here in America. What do you think would happen to that if we imposed a 30 % tariff on imports?

    I favor tax simplification or a flat tax. Our government uses the tax code to manipulate behavior, which is wrong and often counter productive.

    I'm not a fan of either party because both are parties of big government.

    The President was re-elected so let's watch what happens. He will probably get many of the tax increases he wants. I doubt if you'll see any tariffs imposed or your ideas about using taxes to try to force the wealthy to invest in businesses.

    This will be because although you seem to think that only one party is owned by millionaires and billionaires and other evil powerful interests, the truth is that they own both parties.... because we don't remove private money from campaigns.

    The people that control both parties and the entire Congress will see to it that 'most' of what would help most of us, but would disadvantage them, will not come to pass, or if it does, they will re-double what will be successful efforts to blunt any negative effects on them.

    This is exactly the reason I am really looking into leaving this country. I voted for Romney, with very little expectation that he could or would change the course of things. I have no faith President Obama will or could change course either.

    Unless we get the money out of politics, we leave our elected officials at the mercy of those with the money and the lobbyists.

    Michael

  18. Michael Casler says,

    "This is exactly the reason I am really looking into leaving this country. I voted for Romney, with very little expectation that he could or would change the course of things. I have no faith President Obama will or could change course either." (Posted by Michael Casler)

    Mr. Casler, you just witnessed a majority of America over big money and vote a candidate who advocated throughout the campaign of shared sacrifice. President Obama main theme, extend the Bush Tax Cuts and negoicate tax increase on 2% of Americans who are doing really well. How can say, your quitting, leaving the Country? That how America works. Yes, big money will lobby hard to protect their interest. You must do the same with your vote and your energy to have the change you want. There is much to be done, and it is very clear the America People rejected Mitt Romney to get it done, and selected Barack Obama as the leader of America to get it done. It's clear, it's simple.

    So you now want to quit because your candidate did not win! Now, that's not being an American. That is just plain exercising your freedom of choice, a freedom you will not find in many other countries!

    You sound like you have abandon your positions?

    Now, would you be saying the same thing if Mitt Romney won the election? Michael, Michael, Michael.

    Just to be clear, put your faith in God and your trust in Man. Maybe this will help you in making important decisions, and you won't be disappointed in candidates like Mitt Romney.

  19. http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/pf/emerg...
    The baloney is flying today. Over 60% of Americans couldn't afford a $1000 emergency expense.

    In terms of wealth distribution were running neck and neck with Turkey and Chile. It's absolutely dismal. 92% of financial assets in this country are controlled by a tiny fraction of the population.

    $250,000 a year is middle-class? It's the income of five working families or nearly 10 working women. Give me a break!

    Families that earn $250,000 a year may think they are middle-class, they need to talk to a single mom that is working the cash register at Walmart for nine bucks an hour.

  20. Costs are so astronomically high in the aggregate for things like housing, medical care and education people no longer have a path to financial independence.

    Nearly half of businesses fail within five years. Close to 90% fail within 10 years. Most businesses can NOT afford to pay people what they need to achieve financial independence and half the people in this country work for employer businesses. Low wages combined with massive business failures and high costs have eliminated the path for independence.

    People under 35 are accumulating almost no wealth and are going to be completely dependent on programs like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

    The sick are getting financially destroyed by medical costs and the young are getting killed by ridiculous education costs. Between the two were on the brink of becoming the biggest welfare state in history of mankind.

  21. http://www.healthkicker.com/765715057/1-...
    People in this country are so damn poor 100 million people can no longer afford dental care. The letter writer doesn't have to worry about Republicans looking down to poor people. The Republican states are some of the states with the lousiest wages and the worst welfare statistics. Poor people in those states make up a massive voting block.

  22. Rock... Much of the money is not being taken from hard-working Americans. It's being printed by the "Bureau of Engraving and Printing". That's what deficit spending is all about. Keeping taxes low and meeting obligations by printing money.

  23. Ref.. Neither the education model or the medical model are going to survive. I went to UCLA in the 1970s and paid about $600 a quarter. It's currently about $52,000 a year. Ridiculous!

    Irrespective of what happens in the future there are currently $900 billion in outstanding student loans that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy court. They can only be discharged through payment or death. This is more than the nation's outstanding credit card debt.

    You're struggling through a very tragic illness. You're getting a sad taste of what surgery, chemotherapy and radiation cost. The whole thing is ludicrous.

  24. Jeff and LongtimeVegan,

    Neither of you addressed my contention that both parties and our entire political process are at the mercy of powerful interests with money and that the system is totally corrupted by money and self interest.

    I no longer believe that we can return to what we once were as long as our elected officials have to have the money these powerful people and groups with lobbyists make available to obtain and hold public office.

    You two, and many, many others, on both sides, hold to what I consider the foolish view, that one of the parties is somehow on our side and is mostly immune to the corrupted political process. I operate under no such illusions anymore.

    I never have a problem with how people vote, because if you want to be involved and you care, you have to vote for someone and support one of the major parties.

    However, if you are not 'pounding' your party and any elected person you support to implement public financing of campaigns, Congressional term limits, allow 3rd parties into the debates and political process, and change the internal rules of Congress, among other things, then you are supporting the totally corrupted process we have.

    Americans don't understand our system...the way it really works.

    Big, monied, powerful interests of all kinds, with their paid lobbyists, contribute to the national committees of both parties in exchange for what they want legislatively. This is communicated to the leaders in both Houses of Congress in both parties who in turn communicate this to their members in the Senate and House as to how they expect their members to vote on legislation and what legislation to even bring up.

    Bucking the leadership and what it tells you to do will bring a lack of campaign cash and support and in a worst case, a primary challenger. Is it really any wonder that the powerful get more powerful, the rich get richer and the middle class suffers?

    You two, as well as most Americans, don't believe what I just said above and somehow (I don't know how) believe that this system only affects R's or D's respectively. Sorry, but that is wrong. It affects and corrupts and it does it completely.

    I can stay here and I may. I have enough money to survive, but the question is... how WELL will I be able to survive here on the path we are on. Perhaps I can survive BETTER in Belize or somewhere similar. I am looking.

    I'll be totally honest here. I supported the R's and Romney with next to no belief his election would make a real difference, but hoping it might. You support President Obama and the D's with a BIG believe that they are on your side and are immune to the corrupted political and governing process.

    Good luck to you and everyone else in that belief...

    Michael

  25. Carmine thinks $250,000 a year in income is middle class.

    http://globalrichlist.com/

    Your rich list position = 107,565
    You are the 107,565 richest person in the world! You're in the TOP 0.001%
    richest people in the world!

  26. Ms. Nancy Augustin,

    Great letter and right on point, the people have spoken. I have little doubt, although they most likely wouldn't admit it, many Republicans voted for President Obama because of the radical stance Romney, Ryan and other candidates took. The GOP went off the deep end back in September of 2008 and continue on the road of self destruction. Even today many are saying Obama stole the election because they can't deal with reality, which is why it will take them years to recover. Using Marco Rubio as a token candidate in 2016 will not solve they way they perceive others in this country.

  27. Jeff,

    You still think I am critical of you because you voted for and supported the D's. That's not the case. I am critical of everyone, including myself, no matter who we voted for or support.

    I just flat out disagree with you that the R's are 4 times as likely to need to modify their positions as D's are.

    This country cannot continue to exist as we have known it without MAJOR changes to how we are governed. If we don't do as much as is possible to remove the money from politics, nothing that really matters will change. Neither party even discusses that.

    I care about wealth disparity, shrinking middle class, taxes, spending and have opinions about abortion, gays, and other social issues, but without the changes I spoke of, none of it matters.

    Our political and governing system has been hijacked and corrupted. Until we put an end to that, it doesn't matter much which party is the lesser of two evils.

    I am being more and more convinced that until a 3rd party comes along that is viable, we are stuck with this corrupted system.

    Take Ron Paul or Ross Perot as examples. Both say and said things many Americans can agree with that are quite far away from ANYTHING we even hear from the two main parties. Unfortunately, they also espoused a few views that were so far out of the mainstream and when you combine that with the reality that 3rd parties have little chance of doing anything except stealing votes form R's or D's, they stand no chance.

    R's or D's in control, we continue to head toward the place where the standard of living of the average American will decline to a point where a majority will demand radical change.

    You and I and many others can keep voting R or D and nothing that needs to change will change. Of that I am convinced.

    Michael

  28. Nancy,
    That was a great post,yes the voter's have spoken.The cry babies will cry all the way into the midterm elections.They will continue to cry after they lose again in 2014.The Republican party has lost it's way and is just grasping at straws for a solution or some kind of fix.

    There are a lot of Republicans who have switched over and voted for the re-election of Pres.Obama. This is due in part to how the party has changed and has shown it's true colors.Keep up with the good posts that you bring to us to read and comment on.

  29. Jeff,

    Let me add this. SCOTUS is not going to fix things, even if it was 100 % Progressive Democrats. Even if you reverse Citizens United, you just take a system that was 100 % corrupted by money and self interest and you reduce that to 99 %.

    SCOTUS cannot decree public financing of elections. Only Congress can do that and they and the parties are not about to. Same for term limits. Same for rules in Congress that allow a small minority to wield enough power to stop the machinery. Same for lobbying reform.

    Go back to basic US government study in high school. The three branches are separate. The most corrupted branch is the legislative (Congress). SCOTUS cannot fix that. Only Congress can... and they won't unless we force them through our votes.

    Michael

  30. wtplv - "I just flat out disagree with you that the R's are 4 times as likely to need to modify their positions as D's are."

    Michael,

    You are ignoring the fact that the religious right is behind many of the social issues that taint the GOP. The GOP is in trouble and they really need to figure out how to undo much of the garbage and lies they've spoken about. For example, you can't ignore climate change, evolution and science in general and still expect people to believe you are reasonable as a candidate.

  31. Jeff,

    I consider calling someone a 'jerk' and saying you believe their views are naive and foolish are different. I don't engage in personal name calling and I hope you don't approve of that either. Let's set that behind us.

    Look, to have a real debate, I have to actually respond to what you say and you have to do the same with what I say. I said the corruption would remain even if SCOTUS reversed Citizens United. You pointed out that Citizen's United wasn't a law. What?

    And if you want to believe that whatever is cobbled together by Congress will really address the debt and deficit problems, be my guest.

    Michael

  32. Let's grant that the religious right does ignore (or rather rejects) climate change, evolution and science in general as VernosB says.

    That said, there are those on the left that seemingly reject the idea that liberty is built on personal responsibility and the concept that individual initiative is needed for improving one's lot in life. It is not unreasonable to say that the Democrats of today are not the same Party that embraced JFK when he said "Ask not what your country can do for you ..."

  33. Freeman

    First of all Obama's tax plan is a class warfare plan only in your own mind. From where I sit it just cancels the tax welfare plan that the Bush tax cuts introduced.

  34. Vernos,

    I've stated many times that I disagree with R's on many social issues and that they ought to leave them out of campaigns.

    And if you believe in man made climate change, that's your right, but there are many people and scientists that have questions about how much man has to do with it and how much effect just the US could have on mitigating it.

    And, just because there are some people that don't believe in evolution doesn't mean that's what the entire member ship of the party believes.

    Michael

  35. Vernos and Jeff,

    Here is another reason I don't like or trust either party. All during the campaign, D's said everything is on the table and we have to address entitlements. Now that the election is over and D's won, we get Charles Schumer and others saying 'no entitlement reform, 'no changes'. They are proposing another stimulus and other spending, extending the payroll tax cuts.... and to pay for all that.... wait... wait... we want to tax the wealthy 3.5 % more. The numbers don't work, guys.

    The R's did not have a serious plan to deal with the deficit and debt. The D's said the R's plan was not viable but insisted that a plan that was. Oh really???? I'm still waiting to hear it.

    Michael

  36. The Republicans are obviously out of touch with reality and the majority of the country. They need to get a new shtick. Bobby Jimdal is already on the right track. He seems to understand that Republicans must halt the stupidity within the party.

    If you think Obama won because of special gifts, you've got some serious problems. Mitt just doesn't want to admit his campaign made some serious miscalculations. It seems they never looked at the arguments coming from the other side and thus remained insulated from the possibilities of other, more robust realities.

  37. Here is another example of the GOP going off the deep end:

    "Georgia's Senate Majority Leader held a closed-door briefing at which a Tea Party reject claimed that President Barack Obama is using mind control to force Americans into accepting a UN-run communist dictatorship."

    "President Obama is using a Cold War-era mind-control technique known as "Delphi" to coerce Americans into accepting his plan for a United Nations-run communist dictatorship in which suburbanites will be forcibly relocated to cities. That's according to a four-hour briefing delivered to Republican state senators at the Georgia state Capitol last month."

  38. Vernos,

    You take one meeting in Georgia and rubberstamp the whole GOP as believing in mind control. Come on!

    Michael

  39. Former Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour says the GOP needs a "proctology exam" to figure out what went wrong in the 2012 election.

    Even Haley Barbour admits the party is full of a-holes.

  40. After listening to Ron Paul's fair-well address today in Congress, I am more convinced than ever that we have two parties that are going to ensure that our country fails economically.

    I am going to have to seriously consider not voting for either major party anymore. The more and more I see, the more it becomes apparent that neither party is serious about matching revenues to spending, nor are they serious about removing money from the political process or many other critical items that we need to address.

    We badly need a viable 3rd party and we will never have one until many of us stop rubber stamping the same people back into office and supporting one of the two major political parties.

    Michael

  41. Good Lord, but the Neo-Nuts are OFF THE RAILS...

    & Freeman is the Engineer!

    Personal attacks are now 'en vogue' with the losing side of the Presidential election; how hopelessly sad & childish.

    Nancy Augustin nails it with a perfectly penned piece of EDITORIALIZING; and refreeman, as has been his want these past few days, ATTACKS THE MESSENGER!
    You & Carmine, wow; 2 peas in a crazy pod!
    '$250,000 is MIDDLE CLASS' according to Carmine...
    THAT is outright ridiculousness right there.
    NO WONDER you guys are totally out of touch with the electorate! That was Romney-esque, my friend!

    "According to the Census Bureau, the middle 60% of households make between $20,263 and $101,582, and the middle quintile -- the "middlest" of the middle class -- makes $38,521-$62,434 per year. The median household brings home $50,020 per year."

    http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/11/02/p...

    $250,000 is 'middle class', cries Carmine!
    Oh, the freakin' hilarity of that statement!

    Nancy, keep on posting your wonderful middle class, common sense, 'of the people', united-we-stand commentary;
    you are correctamundo...the composition of the U.S., the VAST MAJORITY of 'us' are quite powerful in our own right...if not technically 'wealthy'.

  42. The loonies are 'LEAVING THE COUNTRY!', OR 'seceding from the United States!...

    That Mitt Romney loss was the LAST STRAW!
    We just can't TAKE IT anymore!
    Oh, the HUMANITY!
    We'd rather NOT HAVE A COUNTRY than to have Barack Obama as President!

    Are you people for real???
    GET A GRIP!!!

  43. Why is it difficult to admit the truth?

    We have been glossing over reality for decades. The whole world is in such a mess because people's concept of reality is askew.

    This is actually normal. It is our way of negotiating the world around us. It is how we deal with the world when it does not conform with what we want it to be. It is a form of defense mechanism - for self- preservation.

    It becomes abnormal when we attack another human being because we blame them for the discomforts we experience. It's alright if we do this once in a while, but if it becomes a habit and hurts other people, it is time for psychotherapy.

  44. Both Republicans and Democrats did their best to throw money at specific groups in an effort to have them vote based on that identity rather than as Americans doing what is best for the country as a whole.

    The single biggest issue we have is putting our citizens back to work, yet even Ms. Agustin is pointing out that politicians should place the needs of special interests first.

    There is not one iota of difference in principle between a politician who places the needs of any given demographic first and one who is controlled by the banking community. (Although I tend to think that those who try to divide us along demographic lines are doing an even greater disservice to the country by doing so.)

    To use the words from an author far greater than me: "A pox on both your houses!"

  45. Freeman: I do not take advice from you. I cannot even respect you because you do not respect other people whose views differ from you. Your idea of truth is beyond reason. No one agrees with you except possibly Future who believes in the same 'isms' as you do. I state what is true and you attack me personally instead of offering a rebuttal. If you don't like what I write, then ignore it if you do not have a rebuttal.

    BOFTX. I did not say anything about special interest. I said you lost because you did not consider that America is changing.

    I cannot help it if your frame of references gave you a different perspective of the truth.

    We will never agree about anything because our respective premises are at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

    However, truth always wins. The election proved it.

  46. "However, truth always wins. The election proved it." - ASadTeacher

    I would be willing to bet lunch you did not say that in 2000.

    And, no, I did not lose, in the sense that I am not a Republican as you seem to believe. You can check the records, I am registered as unaffiliated.

    And, yes, you did talk about special interest groups as defined by demographics. It's disappointing in some ways that I doubt my children will ever have you for a teacher. You and I would have some most interesting conferences.

  47. wtplv - "You take one meeting in Georgia and rubberstamp the whole GOP as believing in mind control. Come on!"

    Add on politicians calling for secession and the impeachment of Obama and this goes beyond one meeting of elected officials in Geogia. It's a whole group of people collectively flipping their wigs. When are you going to face the truth Michael? Part of the GOP has gone insane and for the life of me I can't understand why you don't see that. You never struck me as being unintelligent. Even as I write this, some Republican leaders are finally trying to reel the crazies in, because they see the damage being done to the Republican brand.

  48. No. 2000 was not an election. It was stolen by Bush and condoned by a republican supreme court.

    No Freeman. You attack people personally and it is not only me who says that. Kepi, Peacelilly, Jeff, Sam, Antigov, GMAG, Vernos, teehee, Teamster, mark, and others. How many agree with you?

    I am not crestfallen. I am actually having fun, especially because they agree with me and not with you. Those are the people worthy of respect because they do not attack. They simply tell the truth, not lies or cooked up truth.

  49. "I state what is true ..." - ASadTeacher

    Pontius Pilate (supposedly) once asked "What is truth?" Ms. Agustin should make an attempt to answer that given her claim. It is a question that has been wrestled with I daresay since the first creature evolved that was capable of deception.

    We accept some truths as self-evident, that 1 + 1 = 2. Yet Whitehead and Russell needed about 400 pages to prove that statement in a rigorous manner using formal logic. How much more difficult must it be to prove the truth of any statement that involves political thought?

  50. ASadTeacher,

    Okay, let's set aside 2000, did you say the truth won in 2004? Again, I'll wager lunch that you did not.

  51. Given prior comments by both Ms. Agustin and those who, shall we say, disagree with her, I think this quote from Bertrand Russell might be amusing and thought provoking:

    "Passive acceptance of the teacher's wisdom is easy to most boys and girls. It involves no effort of independent thought, and seems rational because the teacher knows more than his pupils; it is moreover the way to win the favour of the teacher unless he is a very exceptional man. Yet the habit of passive acceptance is a disastrous one in later life. It causes man to seek and to accept a leader, and to accept as a leader whoever is established in that position." - Bertrand Russell

  52. And you need to listen to the teacher.

    Listen and learn.

  53. teamster,

    It is good to listen to the teacher and learn. But one of the lessons must be to always question authority.

    We do not advance unless someone asks "What if the teacher is wrong?"

  54. Oh yes, I am having fun!

    Political agenda? Yes I do. You don't?

    I was not pitting rich and poor. The statement was there were more poor than rich and they came out en masse to vote to preserve what little they have. It was wrong to marginalize them (as in 47% moochers, as sluts, as illegals who should self- deport). That was the gist of my comment. I opined that republicans should reassess their politics or they will suffer another defeat and the political balance will be lost.

    What did you do? Bring up my salary AGAIN, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with my comments or the issue I raised.

    You have your own reality and let's leave it at that.

  55. "Carmine thinks $250,000 a year in income is middle class." @Mark Schaffer

    It's not millionaire and billionaire. Like the President said, it's not calculus, it's math. And $250,000 comes up short by $750,000 and $1,000,750,000. Just in case you couldn't, I did the math for you.

    Tell the truth. The exit poll on election day asked voters if they wold agree to higher taxes to pay down the deficit. 33 percent said yes. 63 percent said no. "No" by a 2 to 1 margin. President has no mandate. He's got lies and more lies.

    CarmineD

  56. Comment removed by moderator. Personal Attack

  57. Vernos,

    I have never denied that there are people with views outside the mainstream in the R party and within the Tea Party wing of the R party. What I will not do is make the jump to the conclusion that such people make the whole R party and the whole Tea Party into a bunch of right wing loons. That simply isn't the case, any more than the people in the the D party that are essentially socialists make the D party a socialist party.

    Michael

  58. Ms. Agustin,

    Please, you are being somewhat disingenuous. You did indeed pit the poor against the rich in your letter. The inescapable implication of your statement is that the poor will vote to take what they need (or want) from the rich and they can not be denied the right to do so.

    You have (inadvertently, to be sure) given some justification to Romney's ill-conceived remarks about the 47%.

  59. Comment removed by moderator. Refers to removed comment.

  60. Comment removed by moderator. Refers to removed comment.

  61. Quitting is not a solution to a problem. Complaining about a system one has benefit from for many years without an offering of help for improvement is being somewhat of a hypocrite. Just to be clear, being a hypocrite is not name calling. It describes a persons actions. The word hypocrite is in the dictiornary, so please folks don't be offended if this description fits your actions on a subject being discussion.

    This country has many people who just to complain and obstruct. Where are the creative thinkers? All one reads on any article posted on the Sun is complainers. Any attempt at reasoning, is responded by extreme positions without any offering of a solution.

    Everything is not partisan as many of you have said. Many are American responses. Maybe comments are partisan because one chooses to see them as partisan.

    The fight on the Sun comments board is to challenge the unreasonable in a respectful way with facts that can be explained so all may learn. So, you folks who are sensitive to challenges to your post, please just don't respond. Read and learn. Be creative. Be a thinker.

  62. Nancy Agustin,

    Your letting them bloody you up. Don't explain, challenge. Your losing to a person who will run from his position.

    LTV

  63. Thanks Long. I am quite secure of who I am.

    Actually, the more they talk, the more they show who they really are. Only their ilk will agree with them. People are much smarter. They can spot lies. This election has already proven that.

    The only problem with that scenario is: Election should present choices. There is danger when the choices are two extremes. Republicans must strive to be relevant in a fast changing world, otherwise balance will be lost. There are issues that conservatism must be the yardstick, however, the language of approach must be inclusive to curry strength in its argument.

    They seem to fail to understand that message.

    Thanks again.

  64. Nancy Agustin says,

    "They seem to fail to understand that message"

    Nancy, you are correct. My young friends call this "listening to yourself." The reality, those folks are living in a Bubble. The people in the Bubble only see and hear what is in the Bubble. You and others who appeal for reasonable dialog cannot get through, and will not be heard from people living inside the Bubble.

    Pardon the Humor.

    Some say extreme positions, such as those living in the Bubble, require communication through hard talk and cold water splashes with a huge cup of espresso. That is just to get them to turn around. The only way to communicate with the people inside the Bubble is through a Bubble Master, like Foxnews, or Rush Limbaugh, or websites like the Drudge Report. In order to do that, you would have to compromise your values to enter into that world of fantasy. Otherwise, your wasting good words.

    Have a good one.

    LTV