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April 15, 2014

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Letter to the editor:

Magazine capacity is not a civil liberty

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There are some people who believe that the defeat of the gun-control legislation this week was a victory for those who want to protect their civil liberties.

A rifle with a magazine having a capacity of more than 10 rounds is not a civil liberty.

In the wrong hands, it is a catastrophic tragedy waiting to happen.

Shame on the National Rifle Association and those in Congress who voted to defeat the legislation.

The bill would have served the greater good, and its defeat can only be considered a victory for the financial interests of the NRA and the members of Congress who were “lock, stock” and bought by the NRA.

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  1. The truth is that the bill to restrict gun magazine size in the Senate got 40 votes. It needed 60 to pass. It didn't even get a simple majority, which Democrats in the Senate have.

    Carmine D

  2. ByRefNV(RE freeman)

    "If a police officer requires a gun with backup magazines to protect themselves then why limit homeowners from having the same protection capability as police officers."

    With 310 million guns owned by Americans in this country. Suppose all of these guns had high capacity gun clips as you advocate, what advantage would the police have in dealing with killers?

    Do you really believe police have backup magazines to just protect themselves and not the general public?

    On March 2,1997 two bank robbers attempting to rob a Bank of America branch in California each carrying a AK-47 automatic assault rifles.They also had 100 round ammunition drums and 30 round clips.The gunmen fired steel jacketed bullets easily capable of penetrating body armor worn by officers.Police were outgunned at that time and 16 officers and civilians were injured.Eight officers and three civilians were injured by gunfire,and three officers and two civilians were injured in traffic crashes.To end the the attack the police were loaned two AR-15 assault rifiles a shotgun and rifles with telescopic sights from a local gun store.Which helped end the gun fight.

    This is just one example of what police have had to deal with before they were allowed to carry better weapons to protect us all.

    If the general public were allowed to carry the same amount of fire power as the police,then the police would need a tank to overpower the killers.

  3. Sam:

    I know you have posted gun number ownership many, many, many, many, times here. Did I say many? Please post the source[s] of your number [310 million], if you have one. Thank you in advance for your response to my question here.

    Carmine D

  4. I have tried, without success, to recall a single incident where a homowner successfully (or unsuccessfully for that matter) expended as many as 10 rounds defending their home or themselves from harm.

  5. "A rifle with a magazine having a capacity of more than 10 rounds is not a civil liberty. . . . . .Shame on the National Rifle Association and those in Congress who voted to defeat the legislation. The bill would have served the greater good."

    Smith -- you're evidently ignorant of our federal Bill of Rights. Self-defense is just one of the many fundamental freedoms it protects. Just because people like you can't imagine a situation where one would need "more than 10 rounds" in their clip doesn't mean anyone is free to place such an arbitrary and capricious limit on that freedom. Our Senate voted according to their oaths and did the right thing.

    "Homeowners prefer to abide by the law. What about home intruders? Well let's see. Home intruders have broken into your home which is against the law. . .Home owners should have the same standard handgun with magazine size as that of a police officer."

    "Here are some examples of Disparity of Force....."

    RefNV -- excellent posts! The overall point being the Second Amendment and Nevada's counterpart, Article 1, Section 11, are there to limit government, not We the people. Having once been in the situation you described, I can tell you survival and defense are the first priorities, not whatever stupid laws you'd break doing so.

    "With 310 million guns owned by Americans in this country. Suppose all of these guns had high capacity gun clips as you advocate, what advantage would the police have in dealing with killers?"

    samspeaks -- two flaws in your reasoning: 1) the police aren't always either right or the good guys, and 2) a well-armed general public has never been the problem. That 1997 incident you so painstakingly described has absolutely no relevance to this Discussion -- those well-armed robbers were obviously not engaged in either self-defense nor militia activity.

    "Abe Lincoln may have freed all men, but Sam Colt made them equal." -- post-Civil War slogan found @ http://www.colt.com/ColtLawEnforcement/H...

  6. Carmine,

    Sam,

    "I know you have posted gun number ownership many, many,many, many,times here.Did I say many? Please post the source [s] of your number [310 million].If you have one.Thank you in advance for your response to my question."

    You have asked me this question many,many,many,many,times here in the past.Did I say nany? Here is my source once again.

    "How many guns are in the United States of America- wiki answers"

    Here is what they said. "If you want to get a rough idea of how many guns there are out there.Just look at how many people you see out there then mulitiply by a factor of estimated ownership.the best guess was about 350,000,000 total.That would be 1 weapon for every man women and child.The average gun enthusiast owns several firearms which includes pistols, shotguns,and rifles of all makes and models. In 1995 Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives [BATFE] estimated that there were about 223 million by individuals in the U.S."

    The numbers have increased since 1995.Hope this answered your question once again.

  7. ByRefNV(RE freeman)

    I would never argue with you about the fact that homeowners have the right to defend themselves from intruders by all means necessary.

    I just don't think they should have equal fire power as law enforcement has.

  8. How easily the sheep among us are willing to trust to others their personal safety. That shows how weak they are and how dependent on pencil-pushing bureaucratic government drones to act in their behalf. Boston is a great example of just how safe we can be. The FBI, ATF, local and state police did a marvelous job in tracking down the fanatical brothers - killing one; capturing the other. But, it was too late for the 8-year-old who was just waiting for her father to finish his run. Her mother lost a leg. The same holds true in wanton and gruesome murders in the USA. The killers are caught; the victims are dead and the Commie-lites in our nation want to make it more difficult for the innocents to protect themselves. They simply cannot process the fact that villan's simply do not care about, nor do they obey, the myriad of restrictions now in place. We see it all the time: convicted, then released felons, committing crimes using a firearm. Why haven't the present restrictions worked? Because only the honest citizen obeys and only the honest citizen is hampered.

  9. Mr. Freeman loses a lot of sleep over home intruders. Nevada leads the nation in women shot to death by men. The only home intruder the women in this state need too worry about is their husband.

    No one really knows how many guns exist in this country. If they're taken care of guns last forever and registration requirements are fairly recent. The best guess estimate is about 300 million. I have been involved and nearly killed in several shootings. I have had in the neighborhood of 15 friends shot or killed. It's 300 million guns too many as far as I'm concerned. 50 years ago when there were about 40 million guns in this country they were going to confiscate them all and destroy them. Had they done that millions and millions of Americans would have benefited.

    The extremely violent nature of our society is one of the reasons we are near the bottom of the list in terms of life expectancy in the industrialized world.

    I lived just down the street from the North Hollywood bank shootout that Mr. Pizzo described above. I believe the assailants shot seven policeman and terrorized a densely packed neighborhood. It's only by the grace of God that many more were injured or killed. The fact that criminals could arm themselves with these types of weapons and body armor is an indicator of a society gone mad.

  10. "I wonder how long SgtRock, Carmine, Future, Killer, Fink and Freeman has been on the pay roll of the NRA?"

    El_Lobo -- keep wondering, if that's what gets you through the day.

    "Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." -- Admiral Hyman G. Rickover

  11. The author can't think logically? The people that immerse themselves in our gun culture can't think logically. Three of America's foremost gun enthusiasts have been shot and killed just in the last few months.

    Guns are dangerous! People that don't understand that do so at their own peril. Rap music artists, drug dealers and many military members are part of America's gun fanaticism. They are also shooting themselves and others by the trainload.

    liberals aren't the only ones getting shot to pieces in this country. Every minute people are getting shot or committing suicide from all political parties and perspectives.

  12. Before the vote, Dean Heller accepted the most money from 'Gun Rights PACs', $42,247. Second to Heller was John Barrasso at $26,349 and third was Ted Cruz at $24,929.

    The top ten recipients accepted a total of $233,260, including Joe Manchin at #10 who collected $16,450. (From OpenSecrets)

    While Dean Heller voted with the cash, he claimed that he was voting to preserve 2nd Amendment rights, but as stated, there are no Constitutional rights to unlimited magazines. None.

    The Constitutional right he was upholding was the right to take campaign contributions from anyone, including murderers, and that is a right. Chalk this up to be another lesson on how to become a god in the afterlife, like many of the Roman Emperors claimed.

  13. "In the wrong hands, it is a catastrophic tragedy waiting to happen."

    Like a car. Or a ton of fertilizer...

  14. The correct interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is your right to own a muzzle loader or sword "shall not be infringed" if you are a member of a "well-regulated militia". The 2nd amendment is not without limitation. Even freedoms of speech and privacy have limits.

    Assault rifles, handguns, artillery, small nuclear weapons, and missiles can legally be banned. The US Constitution says, "right to keep and bear arms." In 1791, when the amendment was ratified, the term "arms" meant muzzle loading rifles, swords, and knives. So if you own and use firearms for sport and protection your arms are a privilege and responsibility, not a right.

  15. James Reza, comparing guns with cars and fertilizer is a poor analogy. The primary purpose of guns is to kill, the primary purpose of cars is transportation, fertilizer is for growing plants.

  16. "The correct interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is your right to own a muzzle loader or sword "shall not be infringed" if you are a member of a "well-regulated militia"

    "James Reza, comparing guns with cars and fertilizer is a poor analogy."

    bobbirage -- on your first post, the U.S. Supremes disagreed with you in several hundred pages in two different cases since 2008.

    For your Second, Reza is on solid ground. Just ask someone who survived a near-death encounter with a car or is still alive in West, Texas.

    "...the enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table." District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. (slip opinion at 64) (2008)

  17. "the best guess was about 350,000,000 total."

    Thanks Sam. That's what I thought. It's a guess.

    Now tell us Sam, with all the guessing about the number of guns in America, what does the FBI report every year about the number of gun related deaths in the USA?

    Carmine D

  18. Correction to my post above. The 40 Senate votes was for the ban of assault weapons. The ban on super magazines got 46. Both needed 60 to pass. Neither got the simple majority that the Senate Dems have in the Senate. After that, Senator Reid tabled all the other gun bills at the behest of President Obama. Being a good and loyal party politician, Senator Reid complied.

    Carmine D

  19. BTW Sam, here's the preceding portion of your excerpt from above that you cut:

    "The FBI estimates that there are over 200 million privately-owned firearms in the US. If you add those owned by the military, law enforcement agencies and museums, there is probably about 1 gun per person in the country."

    Now, Sam tell me: Do you really think that including military and law enforcement guns in the number is a legitimate guess of privately owned gun ownership in the USA?

    Carmine D

  20. Carmine,

    "The best guess was about 350,000,000 Total.
    Thanks Sam.Just what I thought.It's a guess."

    It wasn't a guess that's what WIKI- ANSWERS provided for the information when you asked for my source.So even when you are provided with the source you don't beleive it.

    "Now tell us Sam, with all the guessing about the number of guns in America,what does the FBI report every year say about the number of gun related deaths in the USA?"

    You already know the answer,so why have me provide it for you again.Besides that what do these questions have to do with the the gun control legislation,which was the subject we were all trying to discuss? I'm not going to go off topic on this one so you can change the outcome of my answer. Ask someone else to do it for you.

  21. Sam:

    You didn't answer my question about the accuracy and legitimacy of including police and law enforcement guns in the 310 million private gun number count. Why do you include it and why should you? Using your words, it [gun numbers among law and police] have nothing whatsoever to do with the gun law legislation that FAILED in the Senate.

    Carmine D

  22. Carmine,

    Try and stay on the subject matter,which is gun control legislation.Matter of fact don't ask me any more questions any longer as I will not answer your bait and switch schemes. Which is where you try and talk about something not connected to the topic in question.We are done.

  23. And how would such a restriction deter crime? Instead, let's make and ENFORCE a federal law with mandatory 5 years if you carry an unregistered or illegal firearm of any kind, or hollow-point ammunition. Quell the demand for illegal guns. Get after criminals who use guns.

  24. Nice try, Sam.

    Here's the correct answer. You quoted a best guess for private gun ownership in the U.S.A. It includes guns owned by all the military branches, all police forces, and all local law enforcement authorities, AND museums and collections. That's how you [wiki] came to the number of 310 million. It's bogus. Not based on fact and not accurate for the purpose of discussing stricter gun laws in the U.S.

    Carmine D