Las Vegas Sun

September 1, 2014

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Letter to the editor:

Gun control is not working in NYC

Another view?

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I found the column by Joe Nocera, “Last week’s gun news,” very interesting.

No one argues that people kill others with guns. Unfortunately, it happens too frequently in this country.

Are more restrictions the answer? Not if you use New York City as an example. The article stated that the city broke a nine-day murder-free streak last week.

Nine days murder-free doesn’t sound that long to me, especially when you consider that, since 1911, New York state has some of the most restrictive gun control laws.

It is almost impossible for anyone in New York City to obtain a license to carry a concealed weapon, and yet this city has always had one of the highest murder rates in the country.

Gun control is obviously not working there, so why should we think that’s the answer for the rest of the country?

Seems to me that we’re grasping at straws in thinking that gun control will solve the problem.

We need a better solution to this awful heritage.

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  1. New York's situation just proves that we need gun laws on a national level rather than a city or state level. You can't have effective gun control in New York and not have it in Virginia or North Carolina. The disparity in gun laws between jurisdictions just establishes a black market that might make guns more expensive but doesn't make them unavailable.

  2. "we need gun laws on a national level" @ Jim Weber

    The assault weapons ban was FEDERAL. It went into effect in 1994 and expired 2004. When it expired and until now, it was not renewed. Since 2004, gun violence and crime rates have gone done nationally compared to the period 1994-2004 with the FEDERAL assault weapons ban.

    CarmineD

  3. Correlation is not causation Carmine. Prove the link.

    Meanwhile,
    How many millions of people live in the NYC area? Nine days without a murder. Not bad and a step in the right direction no matter how disparaging the uninformed letter is.

  4. "Those who would give up some liberty for some security deserve neither." (I paraphrase.) I am amazed at those thoughtless wimps who see no harm in ceding their rights to unelected, unaccountable, pencil-pushing, bureaucratic drones. Yes, some leftist legislator may push through an onerous bill limiting our rights, but it will be some bureaucratic gnome who will "enforce" it and, along the way, add his/her own interpretation of how it is to be enforced and what means he/she can use. Just because there are nutcases out there using guns, knives, bats or boulders to commit crimes and/or murder does not justify diminishing the Constitutional rights of the rest of us. You don't want guns, knives, bats or boulders in your household? Fine by me. I don't care if you put a neon sign in your window announcing that to the world. Just don't tell me what I can or cannot have to defend my household, my wife and myself from those bent on doing us harm. If I want a .22, .25, .38, or one of "Dirty Harry's" larger toys, that's my business and my right. You? Butt out!

  5. If New York State has some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the country.Why is it that it didn't
    seem to apply to convicted killer William Spangler of Webster N. Y. who killed his 92 year old grandmother with a hammer years earlier?

    Killer Spengler was able to purchase a mossberg shotgun and 38 caliber pistol and a bushmaster assault fifle thru fraud.He killed 4 including himself and wounded 2 others with an assault rifle.

    I believe all the talk is about banning assault rifles with large clip holders for ammunition.It appears that New York state does not have a ban on assault rifles which seems to be the weapon of choice in the last 4 or so mass murders in recent months in our country.

  6. lvfacts101 - "I am amazed at those thoughtless wimps who see no harm in ceding their rights to unelected, unaccountable, pencil-pushing, bureaucratic drones."

    Did you complain when Bush issued the Patriot Act? That law is far more detrimental to your rights than any gun law.

    Here is a fact to digest. More Americans have died from gun violence than died in all the wars we engaged in, from the American Revolution to our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan.

  7. Jack Oliver, Las Vegas,

    You must work for the NRA, or holed up in one room with limited contact to real-time information.

    The Sun posted your comments knowing your not accurate in order to generate a discussion about guns. This is good. This is acceptable.

    Still, Jack, your way off the mark with your assessment. Not in real time. Your living in the Ed Koch era.

  8. http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycr...
    Jack needs to look at the statistics. In the 1980s and 1990s they had thousands of murders in New York City. Most would guns. In 2011 had just over 770.

  9. Gun control is NOT the issue. Was all of this happening in the 50s? No. Why?

  10. "Correlation is not causation Carmine. Prove the link." @ Mark Schaffer

    Really?
    Legal gun sales increased by over 100 percent since the FEDERAL assault weapons ban expired and gun crime and violence is decreasing ever since every year, year over year. Is this a consequence of just random coincidence? Then, what is the cause/effect evidence used by people who are anti-gun rights to support FEDERAL gun/magazine bans?

    CarmineD

  11. Here are 2 articles in today's R/J about the possibility of control we could look forward to if the whackos on the hard left took over: In Iceland, the government has a strict policy on what YOU may name YOUR child. It took a court to overrule the denial of the name "Blaer" which a couple chose for their daughter. In Somalia, a woman raped by security forces was charged with insulting a government body, inducing false evidence, simulating a criminal offense and making a false accusation. She faces imprisonment up to 3 & 6 years if convicted. A journalist who reported the crime is also charged with insulting a government body & inducing the woman to give false evidence. He faces up to 4 years for the first charge and 2 years for the second. Those governmental actions are eeriely similar to some of those proposed by both letter writers and commentors in rants to the LV Sun. In the first, they express the belief that government must control even the smallest aspects of our lives. In the second, they'd make it a crime to express an opinion which did not agree with their agenda. They are very dangerous to our way of life and must be kept at bay.

  12. Not True.

  13. We have a Nevada statute that illegals are prohibited from gun possession. That's not working and not being enforced. We still have illegals killing Americans on our streets whenever they want "rent money." And so then we give them public defenders, at our expense, and try them in our courts, at our expense. Then we incarcerate them at our expense.

  14. It sure seems that the left leaning folks would like to create a utopia of no guns at all. Reasoning that is not possible they will settle for grabbing selected guns from those who acquire them to protect themselves from bad guys who will always manage to obtain and use these guns against the good guys. Of course this is an unrealistic policy,also unconstitutional, which will not be legislated into existence. More intelligent, the People will push back and ultimately preserve the Second Amendment rights of all citizens as they are commonly understood.

  15. BChap,

    I fully agree with your thoughts on assisted suicide. I posted a couple of weeks ago that part of the solution might be to remove the stigma attached to suicide in this country and allow people who wish to do so to end their lives with dignity rather than feel they must make a statement. (I believe that the taking of one's own life is the ultimate act of a free person and to say such a thing is "illegal" as some states do is absurd.)

    I also think that the mass-marketing of anti-depressants and other drugs that carry warnings about suicidal thoughts is a major contributor to the problem of gun violence, at least in cases involving family and/or friends. As much as I detest some of the philosophical implications, I would not oppose a background check that includes current or recent use of such drugs and having such appear be a reason for denial of a gun permit. (That said, I can't help but wonder how many people who take Xanax would be better off by smoking a joint.)

  16. "We need a better solution to this awful heritage."

    Oliver -- as if any of this is a surprise. Our country is nearly 2-1/2 CENTURIES old, and recorded human history is thousands of years, yet posters in these Discussions write as if predatory violence is something new.

    "New York's situation just proves that we need gun laws on a national level rather than a city or state level. You can't have effective gun control in New York and not have it in Virginia or North Carolina."

    pisces -- this country was not founded to be centrally governed, and the federal Constitution doesn't allow it. That's why our republic is named The UNITED STATES of America.

    "I am amazed at those thoughtless wimps who see no harm in ceding their rights to unelected, unaccountable, pencil-pushing, bureaucratic drones."

    lvfacts -- or thugs with badges, or just under color of authority. Yet that's what the herd clammers for, no? Seems German history from the last century repeats itself here.

    "If New York State has some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the country.Why is it that it didn't
    seem to apply to convicted killer William Spangler of Webster N. Y. . ."

    samspeaks -- either you can't read or don't know the difference between New York City and New York state.

    "You must work for the NRA, or holed up in one room with limited contact to real-time information."

    Longtimevegan -- chill, LTV. Oliver's letter made some good points worth paying attention to.

    "The only thing new in the world is the history you don't know." -- President Harry Truman on the insight "Plutarch's Lives" gave him

  17. Many of the problems we have in enforcing existing laws is self-inflicted. Did the 1994 measure work? Who knows! At the behest of the NRA Congress allowed collecting the necessary data only during the first year. And at the behest of the NRA Congress refused to extend it. Do we have an epidemic of gun-related crime? Who knows! At the behest of the NRA Congress prohibited the people who deal with epidemics (CDC) from addressing that question.

    Does gun control in New York have an impact on New York gun-related crime? Who knows! New York (City or State) has no authority to control its boarders. ANYONE can bring in guns from ANYWHERE - in any volume! Do the background checks do any good? Who knows! At the behest of the NRA Congress required that the data be destroyed within 24 hours. Can we enforce the penalties for falsifying background check data? No! Again, at the behest of the NRA Congress requires the data be destroyed within 24 hours.

    Can we trace a firearm used in a crime to the original seller? Not reasonably nor on a timely basis! At the behest of the NRA Congress prohibited that data from being computerized so any attempt to search it requires sifting through reams of paper. Do all sellers keep uniform records? Absolutely not! At the behest of the NRA Congress refused to establish uniform record-keeping: some records are hand-written on rolls of paper towels! I've not heard of a seller using toilet paper - yet. Can we determine if a specific dealer routinely sells guns to unauthorized purchasers? Absolutely not! At the behest of the NRA Congress. . . Etc. Etc. Etc.

    Just exactly who votes for these Congress Critters, anyhow? We, the People? Or the NRA? These results clearly show the answer - the NRA does, of course. And we get the best Congress money can buy.

  18. BChap,

    Religious people tend to think of suicide as a "sin." I will speculate and say that liberals who have a negative view of suicide do so on grounds that there is always a way to help someone no matter how bad things might seem.

    There are other cultures than ours, and some of them see suicide as the honorable, indeed the *only* right thing to do in some cases. This has been true throughout history in diverse cultures.

    Still others see it as regrettable, but understandable and accepted. We should move to at least that category.

    I simply don't know if having a more tolerant view of suicide would help prevent murder-suicides, but it certainly couldn't hurt.

    On a side-note, keeping a person alive against their will could possibly be the worst punishment of all. We might very well have things backwards. We should be assisting those who wish to die (WHETHER OR NOT WE THINK THEY HAVE REASON) to do and reserving forced life to those who have been sentenced to life without parole.

  19. I have a hard time with suicide, but that also depends on why a person wants to end their life. If someone is suffering in terrible pain with no hope of recovery and waiting to die, even being a Catholic I can understand why they want to end their life. My biggest issues are with people who want to end their life for things like financial problems or broken relationships and then on top of that decide they need to take innocent people with them as has been the trend here in town lately. If someone feels that bad and sees no other alternative at least leave others out of the equation. I've had to put dogs to sleep to avoind suffering from medical issues, so I understand that people don't want to live in pain. Me, I'm an optimist, i want to hang around to the bitter end.

  20. KillerB,

    Inaccurate information is consider making a good point?

    Hummm....Okay... At best this generates an additional discussion on guns. A meaningful debates requires honest and accurate information. Jack Oliver falls short of accurate information.

    Don't confuse good points with inaccurate information. Jack Oliver made a point, it was not good.

  21. "We do not want to live in a country with idiots
    running around with assault rifles." @ Teamster

    No not true. We don't want to arm just some of the idiots and not others.

    CarmineD

  22. "Carmine fails to understand my question. Not surprising." @ Mark Schaffer

    I suggest you go back and read your post to me. It doesn't have a question in it, except perhaps buried in the recesses of your mind. Sadly, I never had that course in mind reading.

    CarmineD

  23. ByKillerB

    "Samspeaks,Either you can't read or don't know the difference between New York City and New York State".

    Either you can't read or you never finished reading Mr.Oliver's letter to the editor to it's very end.Mr Oliver clearly writes in his letter to the editor that "NEW YORK STATE has some of the most restritive gun control laws in the country".It dosen't say city it says state.

    My suggestion to you would be read the whole article before trying to make false comments about others who clearly "STATE" what was written by Mr Oliver.

  24. Jeraldo has an idea. Authorize law enforcement to stop, frisk and confiscate when they have reasonable suspicion, something less than reasonable cause. When a city or area has a violent crime rate above, say the national average, authorize a little more search and seizure. What might be unreasonable in a safe quiet neighborhood SHOULD BE allowed and REQUIRED in crime-ridden areas. No need to increase funding--just allow the cops to do their jobs with a little less red tape and "judicial oversight."

  25. Byboogiefinger,

    I commented on Mr. Oliver's statement about "NEW YORK STATE GUN LAWS", as it was spelled out in his the letter to the editor.Perhaps you should read what was said. Mr.
    Oliver's words not mine.

  26. Byboogiefinger,

    New York City Is a part of New York State all state laws apply to all residents of the state.

    Time for you to find another arguement somewhere else.We are done talking.

  27. Let Jack Oliver look at it from another angle.New York City' population is MORE THAN 4 times that of the "entire" state of Nevada.8,244,910 to 589,317 in Las Vegas (only). New York State has a total population of 19 1/2 MILLION to our 2.7 MILLION for the entire state of Nevada. Our murders and shootings here are some of the WORSE in the entire country for its population and NO ONE but NO ONE can argue that !!

  28. Anyone here have better training than this guy?

    http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/02/02/...

    "Chris Kyle, a retired Navy SEAL and the U.S. military's most lethal sniper, was fatally shot Saturday along with another man on the gun range of Rough Creek Lodge, a posh resort just west of Glen Rose, Erath County Sheriff Tommy Bryant said.

    A suspect was arrested about five hours later in Lancaster, southeast of Dallas, more than 70 miles from the scene, Bryant said.

    The suspect, identified as Eddie Ray Routh, 25, was pursued to a house in Lancaster by officers, including a local SWAT team. Routh tried to flee in a vehicle but was stopped about 9 p.m. after spikes were laid across a road, Bryant said.

    "The suspect has been caught and is in custody in Lancaster," he said. Erath County sheriff's investigators and Texas Rangers were securing a capital murder warrant, he said.

    Witnesses told sheriff's investigators that the gunman opened fire on the two men around 3:30 p.m., then fled in a pickup belonging to one of the victims. The Sheriff's Department didn't get a call until around 6 p.m."

    Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/02/02/...