Las Vegas Sun

March 29, 2024

Q+A:

Former union-busting corporate attorney takes on Amazon in Supreme Court wage case

Nevada attorney Mark Thierman

Kyle Roerink

Nevada attorney Mark Thierman has gone from working for big companies to filing lawsuits against them. He is currently counsel in a suit that alleges Amazon warehouse employees should be paid for the time they spend waiting in line to pass through a metal detector at the end of shifts.

Mark Thierman recalls the times when union representatives shot at him, chased him down a freeway or slashed his tires.

But today, things are different for Thierman.

Thierman is no longer a union-busting corporate attorney. He defends hourly wage workers on assembly lines and casino floors. His latest foe is one of America's largest corporations, retail giant Amazon.

In his office are framed checks worth millions from cases he won against Starbucks, Merrill Lynch and others. He’s hoping the next check will be from the online retailer.

In the U.S. Supreme Court, Thierman recently argued that Amazon should pay its workers for the time spent passing through the company’s theft-deterring security checkpoints. After clocking out at the end of a shift, each of Amazon’s 40,000 warehouse employees exit through airport-like checkpoints. They were waiting 25 minutes on average in the security lines before leaving the facility. (Thierman said Amazon recently made time-saving improvements after he won in U.S. 9th Circuit). The checks aren’t a safety measure. They are merely in place to deter theft and benefit Amazon, he said.

Amazon says the time is not payable because the security checks are not integral to the job, likening the process as a part of a commute or punching the clock, according to court filings.

The Supreme Court heard Thierman’s arguments on Oct. 8 and will make a decision in the coming months.

The Sun recently talked to Thierman about Karl Marx, hypnosis and the long-term effects of the Supreme Court decision. His answers have been edited for brevity and clarity.

Q. You are a certified hypnotist and considered leaving law to practice it full time. If you could hypnotize one Supreme Court justice who would it be?

A. I am not going to take pot shots. They are all doing what they think is right.

How does warehouse design and layout affect workplace productivity at Amazon?

One, they put the time clocks so far away from the restroom and lunchroom you don’t get a half hour lunch and can hardly go the bathroom. Security checks occur outside of the main warehouse floor. It is all controlled.

Why would Amazon design workplaces that seemingly benefit the company and not their hired/temp agency employees?

Because greed is good. Marx would not be happy. We are a capitalist system. Why would they do that? The purpose of business is to make money. God bless them. They make a ton of money because they are efficient. But you don’t want to do it on the backs of the worker.

What is the average Amazon warehouse employee like?

Around 90 percent are the working poor. At 10 bucks an hour, it is around $24,000 a year. A family of four can’t live in America on that. They are struggling.

Could Amazon switch to robots?

Sure. But somebody will have to build those robots. This is a case where upper level management had no idea what lower level management was doing. But instead of saying, "We made a mistake." They said: "We will back our management even if they are wrong."

If you win how will this case change labor management?

There are 7,000 overtime lawsuits filed every year in federal court. Of those, only six were this type. If I win, 400,000 people will pretty much get a few dollars and their lives made easier. If I lose, Katie, bar the door. Now, for employees, after you punch out, turn out the lights, sweep the floor and put on the pot of coffee for the next shift.

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