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FacebookObama gets first jabs on Vegas’ ‘green’ turf
Steve Marcus
Barack Obama talks with supporters during his campaign event Tuesday at the Las Vegas Springs Preserve. In his speech, the senator said investments in alternative energies could produce more than 80,000 jobs in Nevada by 2025. “A green, renewable energy economy isn’t some pie-in-the-sky, far-off future,” he said.
Wed, Jun 25, 2008 (2 a.m.)
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- Barack Obama discussed renewable energy in Southern Nevada at a speech at the Springs Preserve.
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- Obama compares the use of renewable engery in Germany and the United States.
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- Obama on what Washington D.C. has done about renewable energy.
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- Obama on John McCain's energy policy.
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- Down to one candidate, Berkley endorses Obama (6-20-2008)
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Beyond the Sun
Barack Obama used a campaign speech on energy in Las Vegas on Tuesday to sully the “green” credentials of his Republican presidential rival, John McCain, who has been running ads in sunny Nevada boasting of his work on global warming.
Obama seized on remarks McCain made this week that offshore drilling would have a “psychological impact” on the oil speculation that some say has driven the price of gas to more than $4 a gallon.
“In Washington-speak, what that means is, it polls well,” Obama said, prompting laughter from about 80 “green industry” workers at the Las Vegas Springs Preserve, a 180-acre nature preserve on the site of the original Las Vegas oasis. “It’s an example of how Washington tries to convince you they’ve done something to make your life better when they really didn’t.”
He continued: “The American people don’t need psychological relief or meaningless gimmicks. They need real relief that will help them fill up their tanks and put food on their table.”
McCain’s campaign responded swiftly, with energy adviser Doug Holtz-Eakin saying the comments “revealed (Obama) doesn’t understand the fundamentals of a modern financial market and how it’s a usual way to convey information to participants in our economy.”
The attention being paid to energy in Las Vegas this week underscores the importance of Nevada as a key battleground state in November. McCain is set to deliver a speech on energy today at UNLV.
The state boasts enormous renewable energy potential, a fact not lost on Obama as he sought to use the setting (the Springs Preserve generates 70 percent of its power from solar panels) and the audience (peppered with workers from government agencies, unions and contractors all engaged in the energy industry) as a national example of a green economy.
“A green, renewable energy economy isn’t some pie-in-the-sky, far-off future,” Obama said. “It is now.”
Investing in solar, wind and geothermal energy could produce more than 80,000 new jobs in Nevada by 2025, he said. In the short term, however, Obama offered his prescription for “real relief”: issuing a second round of economic stimulus checks, taxing the record profits of oil companies, awarding a $1,000 tax cut to most workers and closing the “Enron loophole” that would mean tighter regulation of oil speculators.
In addition to promising to raise fuel economy standards for automobiles, Obama has pledged to invest $150 billion over the next decade in renewable energy research and development. On Tuesday he derided McCain’s proposals as little more than political posturing, particularly his pledge to offer a $300 million prize to anyone who develops a car battery that would “leapfrog” hybrid or electric power.
“When John F. Kennedy decided that we were going to go put a man on the moon, he didn’t put a bounty out for some rocket scientist to win,” Obama said. “He put the full resources of the United States government behind the project and called on the ingenuity and innovation of the American people, not just in the private sector but also in the public sector.”
McCain has also proposed suspending the gas tax for 90 days, allowing offshore drilling and building more nuclear power plants, and his campaign has dubbed Obama “Dr. No” because of the Democrat’s opposition to all of those ideas.
Obama’s camp points to McCain’s voting against fuel efficiency standards and against a 2005 energy bill that included the “largest ever” investment in renewable energy. At the same time, Obama has taken heat for his support of corn ethanol — and the fact that many of his prominent advisers and supporters have ties to the industry. Corn ethanol is considered by many economic, consumer and environmental groups to be a boondoggle for agribusiness and packs a considerably smaller energy kick than ethanol made from sugar cane.
In response to a question on nuclear energy, Obama said he wouldn’t “rule it off the table” but insisted it was not a viable alternative until concerns about storing the waste safely are resolved. He opposes Yucca Mountain as the country’s nuclear waste dump but supports research on storage and recycling in general. McCain supports the dump proposal.
Likewise, while Obama said he supports “clean coal” as a potential alternative, he said the technology to make it environmentally safe is still lacking, and thus does not support the production of “new coal plants with old technologies that are, at best, going to be obsolete.” Nevada has plans for three such coal plants.
The candidates’ visits this week come at an important time for Nevada’s solar industry.
The Bureau of Land Management has quietly stopped accepting new applications for solar plants on federal land. The moratorium, reported last week by the Sun and catching even Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid by surprise, is expected to last 22 months — about as long as it will take the agency to complete a study of the environmental impacts. But developers say the delay will kill the industry, which is just getting on its feet here.
Obama said Tuesday that he was unfamiliar with the specifics but would have the Energy Department, under his administration, “evaluate any moratorium to make sure it doesn’t impede that kind of development.”
And then, taking his last question, Obama signed off with a nod to Nevada’s libertarian spirit. “I’m a Democrat, and there have been times in the past when Democrats have gotten regulation-happy,” he said. “I want enough government to do what needs to get done ... We should have as light a hand as possible while ensuring we have tight, tough standards.”
Sun reporter Phoebe Sweet contributed to this report.
Discussion: 29 comments so far…
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The Sun
Locally owned and independent for more than 50 years.
Hussein's plan:
1) Tax energy
2) Suppress the supply and development of coal, natural gas, oil and nuclear
3) Force on us the more expensive solar and wind
That equals higher energy prices for all of us.
McBush' plan.
1. Drill for every drop in total that equals 1/10 of the oil the USA uses.
2. Destroy most of Wyoming for shale that may or may not squeese out oil.
3. Let solar, wind and geothermal go by the wayside.
That equals higher prices, dirty air, and does nothing to make Nevada a leading state to build and sell solar energy to the rest of the country.
In case anyone does not know the facts: A 100 square mile solar plant would exceed the energy use of the entire USA. The southwest states are the new middle east because of the intense solar rays we receive. We need leadership to develop these plants.
Both of them don't even know what they are talking about. It's all about the votes
The Mojave Desert actually gets too hot for traditional solar panels to work all summer. If you have solar in the Mojave (I do), you know that there is a point where the temps get too hot for the panels to work all year. The big reflector systems will work much better, but require too much water. Where will all the water come from?
I am in no way a supporter of McCain, but I don't see any real plan coming out of Obama here. Does Obama even know that there is no such thing as clean coal yet? Does Obama even see that energy conservation is the only logical way to conserve it? Can you say population control? Our inventions could be four times more energy efficient than they are.
While there are many people who hate the desert so much, they would gladly just cover it all with solar, they can't see how most of these solar farms are just too expensive to really happen. There will be so many conflicts involving access, wildlife, private land, property values, recreation, water, air quality, etc. that these projects will be stalled forever.
They could give tax breaks to retail giants to sell solar to the home owner. Buildings could be designed to run on solar. There are so many ways to do this much cheaper than builing power lines for hundreds of miles on open public land. Do you even know how much more your energy costs will rise to pay for these giant "green" boondoggles? Keeping solar close to the cities will keep it cheap. Giving the monopoly to a big energy company that we have to buy it from will only make it more expensive. It's not really a matter of if you support it or not. The plans to blanket the desert with ugly alternative energy are just too aggressive and large to be possible. While I'm sure a couple of hese solar farms will happen, most will be shelved.
Plus, scraping up all the desert vegetation will take away the carbon storing plants and organic soil crusts. Even those desert shrubs that people are too uneducated to recognize, keep the climate cooler.
I was going to vote Obama, but his ignorance on clean energy shows that he really does not back anything he says with substance. McCain is an obvious crook and will not get my vote either.
So Obama will “evaluate any moratorium to make sure it doesn’t impede that kind of development.” Does that mean Obama will over- ride the Endangered Species Act? Will Obama take away the NEPA public comments? That sound a lot like the Bush Administration to me. I guess Obama knows very llittle about western public lands issues. How ignorant. Obama is starting to look anti environment here. I'll bet he didn't mean to look that way! Sounds like he thinks rural people are idiots...
What a shame that the republicans nor democrats could not do any better!
Since I live near Yucca Mtn I don't like McCain, but Obama sounds way too idealistic to me. It's going to take a really long time to go from oil to alternative, so I agree with you Sunlizard-- we gotta conserve more and do more local solar/wind, meaning bring the price down so homeowners can afford it.
I like McCain's prize for developing a better battery, as that is the weak link in alternative energy at the moment. Obama seems to think we can get back to the Kennedy era somehow--no way man. The time is now and we have a completely different economy. The federal government can't afford to go back to the moon - Google is offering a prize for a private venture to do that. That is the only way you can get things done today, by private commercial projects.
Oh, and those stimulus checks-- great idea. My Bush check got cut from $600 to $300 because, the IRS says, I am self-employed. Huh? Didn't I pay taxes too?
Sunlizard, some in the rural Australian outback utilize photovoltaic solar energy. Their temperatures match or exceed our own, so I'm not sure why you think excessive heat is an issue.
Also, you are aware that the largest array of PV panels in North America is at Nellis AFB, right?
And while PVs may not work in Death Valley, we have these new fangled inventions called 'power lines' which help move electricity from one area to another. (hat tip, JohnF) They're cheap and easy and would provide a great source of new jobs, keeping in line with Obama's call for investment in jobs relating to green energy.
Photovoltaic solar energy is about 10x's more expensive than solar thermal plants.
But that is Ok for it seems that you all are willing to pay triple your current utility bill.
The Mojave Desert is hot. Not just in Death Valley. Summer temps in Death Valley will be 125, in a place like the Indian Springs basin at the same time, it will still be 115F which is still too hot. Do the research. Solar panels will work during the spring amd fall mostly, but not the summer. My point is that people need to be educated. There are areas like Florida where solar radiation could be more productive on a year round basis. So why not blanket the Everglades? Put concrete foundations in the water to support the panels. How about wind farms all over Yosemite? What? That would be ugly? Now you get why some of us will not just give up our desert for Obama's unrealistic plan to save the world. Obama needs to educate himself before he speaks. What a shame that Obama is just another corporate energy chump...
Sunlizard, there are NINE operational solar plants currently in the Mojave. Some of these have been operational since the 80's.
Do the research? "SEGS VIII and SEGS IX are the largest solar plants individually and collectively in the world. They are located in the Mojave Desert, which is an area where insolation is among the best available in the United States."
So yeah, those infrastructure and temperature problems? We've been able to overcome them for 25 years.
And another citation-less phony statistic from Nance? Yawn.
First, you never source anything.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob...
In this article , it concludes "...high irradiations solar thermal systems provide the best-cost solution even when considering higher cost reduction factors for PV in the next decade.”
thebs, you are still missing the point. A hot and dry desert is not always the best place for solar radiation, but it obviously works for part of the year...Duh! And remember, some of those 8 plants in the Mojave are reflector systems which cost way more to construct. Eight is not that many anyway. If it were cheaper, the desert would have way more than a small 8 systems by now. The cost of the energy will be more when you need to construct powerlines in areas that are hundreds of miles from urban areas. Using rooftop and using the hundreds of square miles of rooftop in the southwest will make sense. My point is that there actually are complications that make Obama's silly little idealistic, "the desert will solve our problems" speech stupid. Not that simple. There are other regions that have better temps that make solar more efficient. The reason most of these plans will fail is the cost. I'm glad you have chosen the desert to save your world. Where do you live? How much of your back yard are you willing to develop to solve the energy problem. It is stupid and unrealistic to assume that all of these solar farms will just happen. Right now it is speculation and when the locals get their say..and a lot of us will make enough problems to stop them. You don't have to like that, but if you want to change things you will have to face that. Are you serious about solar? What is on your roof? Why is another's home good enough to trash so you can feel good about running you TV overtime?
Obama is proving that he is a "more of the same" politician by not really understanding what he is trying to talk about.
Yes, and where in that article abstract does that say, "Photovoltaic solar energy is about 10x's more expensive than solar thermal plants."
Actually, that abstract says, "Electricity generation cost much below 10 Eurocents per kW h for solar thermal systems and about 12 Eurocents/kW h for PV can be expected in 10 years in North Africa." Thus, the true cost of PV vs. solar thermal is a 20% premium, not 1000%, like you erroneously claimed. And those statistics are based off of costs that are unknown and may be reduced with your vaunted economies of scale.
It's another of your fantasy statistics. You make outlandish claims of skyrocketing energy bills, but can't qualify those claims with actual facts.
And I never source anything? You may recall you were unable to refute my citation yesterday of the GAO report on the Iraq surge conditions from June, 2008. My, how quickly you forget. When I cite statistics, I source them.
SEGS VIII and SEGS IX are reflectors. Again, My point was not about the reflector systems. But as long as you bring it up, the investment, cost of construstion and water issues of the reflector systems is just not cost effective. Energy conservation is really only up to the individual. Too bad people like McCain, Obama, Bush and Harry Reid won't help us in that department. The politicians are telling thebs what he/she wants to hear. Get some solar panels. Take a class. You'll catch on soon enough...
Thebs! Is it ADD?
You are getting the messages confused! LOL! I was not the one that said 10X more expensive. But if you look at the amount of effort and resources that goes into a reflector system, you are looking at many years before it pays for itself, and those who buy the energy from it, will be the ones who do. But i do agree that the reflector systems work better than the photovoltaic systems. They just cost way too much to patronize Obama's shallow political speeches...
Sunlizard, this isn't all about you. Nance made the 10x claim and my comment was in response to his claim. You're up next.
I think this is the future: Lennar is showing commercials in Las Vegas for communities of homes that are all solar powered.
This eliminates the need for pricy power lines stretching hundreds of miles and losing elecricity on the wires along the way. Also gets rid of the greedy power company selling you electricity and raising the rates all the time.
Go local!
Sunlizard, Nevadans couldn't prevent a nuclear waste repository from being built. Why do you think some solar energy would spark any more indignation?
Let's back up and revisit your plan. Solar energy from the Everglades. Have you ever been to Florida? Are you aware of how often it rains there? Or the natural disasters?
The fact is, the desert (Mojave, specifically) is where insolation is best. Insolation is crucial to solar energy. I'm not sure why you don't understand that... but then your great plan was to relocate solar panels to the Everglades.
As to the Everglades, from AccuWeather.com: "Afternoon thunderstorms are common and mosquitoes are abundant. The Atlantic Hurricane Season is June-November. Tropical storms or hurricanes may affect the area. Average Rainfall: 60 inches (152 cm) per year."
Contrast that with the Mojave, which, according to the USGS, gets 137 mm of rainfall per year. Which area provides better insolation?
First, it was too hot. Then, you claimed the infrastructure needs were too large. All of these issues have been addressed, and 20 years ago, no less.
Obama never claimed the desert will solve all of our problems. Your overexaggeration is ridiculous.
But you are missing the point that the constant warm, but less hot climates of a place like Florida would make up for the heat extremes that would basically cut out photovoltaics in most of the whole Mojave during the three hottest months of the year. I lived in Florida. It rains in the summer than the sun comes out. It never rains all day there. Have you been to Florida? I don't want solar all over the glades, but was pointing out the obvious. That point was to try to explain to you how people don't want to just give up a place they love to meet the nation's energy needs. But I don't think you will get that until it becomes news. Solar works very well in Florida. You can get more year round solar from Florida than Southern Nevada if you are using photovoltaic...even when those mosquitos land on the panels...Plus, you refuse to answer the roof top solution.
As far as infrastructure needs, there were several proposals to go solar in the Mojave two decades ago. A lot more than it is now! The 8 or 9 plants are pretty much all they could afford. They never pulled it off. They are talking about a lot more than that now. It will be no easy task to re invent the centralized energy wheel-which will have to be done in order to get the massive plans they have on line. I never said solar will not work in the Mojave. The arguement was that extreme heat will make photovoltaics limited. But not reflector systems. How many repeats are needed here?
You sound one of those boys who is educated by Wikpedia...
Plus, the Yucca Mountain repository is just about dead ....and that was pretty much killed by Nevadans...There is a hole in that mountain, but no nukes.
You are dreaming if you think that Yucca is dead.
perhaps lingering is a better description...
Yes that is a better description.
Why don't Reid and the Democrats kill it?
They control both houses.
Reid is supposed to be a very powerful senator. I think he is the third most powerful Democrat in DC.
I guess he is spending too much time carrying out orders from MoveOn.org.
No, the point is that deserts are the best possible place for insolation, which is the single measure that should be used when talking about solar. Deserts, with their high insolation, flat terrain and adaptive ecosystems are optimal for solar installations. Otherwise, you're compromising the efficiency of the system.
The usage of solar in the desert would have a smaller footprint, due to the favorable insolation. The increased insolation also yields a greater capacity for energy production.
You never answered my question: if PV fails at high temps, how are they used in the Australian outback, where temperatures match or exceed our own?
It will not be an easy task to fundamentally alter the way we create and manage energy. That we can agree on, but it's a task in which we should be investing more.
Reid is the last call for Yucca. Once he's out, whether through defeat or retirement, there won't be any major obstacles in the DOE's way.
Nance, do you really want to have a debate over which party has done more to bring nuclear waste to Nevada?
How many times has McCain voted against Yucca?
December 4, 2007:
"A key way to reduce harmful greenhouse gas emissions, (McCain) said, would be to increase the use of nuclear power.
"When asked after the forum how he proposed to dispose of high level nuclear waste, McCain said, "My preference is that we store it. I always thought that Yucca Mountain was the right place to do it."
"It's not a problem of technology. It's a problem of political will. We have now the worst of all worlds, because we have nuclear waste sites around every nuclear power plant in America, which provides us with the greatest challenge to our security," he said. "So I would try and resolve it and I would try to go back and revisit the Yucca Mountain issue, but I would do everything in my power to resolve it."
http://www.reformer.com/headlines/ci_763...
It's one thing to not have the political power to kill the project. It's another, altogether, to do "everything in (his) power" in pursuit of "the right place to do it."
Here is an article that describes that Hussein might not be so anti-Yucca as one might believe.
http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/2007...
I think the Democrats can choose not to fund it all and that would kill it in two second
I guess not.
READ =
Off point subject, On point OBAMA
What the hell is happening. The time for "Change" is not now. Obama is not the ticket, where are the long term thinking people. The blacks want a black president...Period. Others want a solution to the WORLD economic problems, the Bush haters, do not want McCain, but somehow, the people will elect Obama, give control to the DEMs in both houses and the White House??? You have got to be kidding. This is going to hurt but you better get it together because if O is elected, you will be on your knees praying for the days of high gas prices.
Wake Up. There is not one of you who would give me you debit card and PIN number and that is what you will do. Checks and balances will get us through these times. Give O a few more years to mature. If he is elected, Mid east goes to hell, taxes up, gas--- you are on a bike, lastly, I know my enemy, and I keep him close, the unknown scares the crap out of me.
My take
.
A perfect example of a ' Marxist Dictatorship' when we haven't even voted yet:
Barack Obama's perceived superiority:
"I have delusions that I am already the President".
Obama thinks he can take a Presidential symbol and make it his.........Very disrespectful.
.