Columnist Jeff German: Gaming debate continues long after cameras turned off

CHICAGO -- There they were in the waiting room of CNN's Michigan Avenue bureau, nose to nose on the edge of their seats, pointing fingers at each other in an unofficial debate over the merits of gambling.

Frank Fahrenkopf and Tom Grey had lost their cool with each other even before they stepped into the crossfire of Pat Buchanan and Bill Press on national television.

Passion and emotion always seem to take over when Fahrenkopf, 58, and the Rev. Tom Grey, 57, appear in each other's presence.

Wednesday night was no different, as the two warriors -- Fahrenkopf, the polished Washington lawyer and president of the American Gaming Association, and Grey, the soft-spoken methodist minister who runs the National Coalition Against Legalized Gambling -- prepared to do battle on CNN.

Both men were in town for the National Gambling Impact Study Commission's latest hearing. The nine-member panel is looking into the social and economic impact of gambling across America.

This week's favorite subject is the effect of riverboat casinos in the Midwest.

Grey claimed to be winning the battle to stop the spread of gambling in the nation's heartland, and Fahrenkopf accused the reverend and his supporters of misstating the facts.

"Is this a conspiracy theory, now, Frank?" Grey asked.

"Absolutely," Fahrenkopf responded.

Then came time for the real debate on "Crossfire," as the two advocates, warmed up by a traveling columnist, were hustled to an interview room, where they sat inches apart awaiting questions from Buchanan and Press in Washington.

You could tell Fahrenkopf had more experience on the Washington news shows.

The former Republican National Committee Chairman wore a navy double-breasted suit that showed up well on the airwaves. He even brought his own ear piece to make sure he could hear the questions properly.

Fahrenkopf looked relaxed. Grey, dressed in a mushroom suit that blended in well with the walls, appeared stiff as a board.

But once Buchanan and Press started firing questions at their two guests, both found themselves on the hot seat.

After dozens of debates around the country, several on national TV, Fahrenkopf and Grey have to try hard to surprise each other in forums like this. There were no surprises Wednesday night.

In the end, Fahrenkopf and Grey found themselves agreeing on one thing.

Both said they believed casinos should remove ATM machines to deter gamblers from dipping into their life savings.

That common ground closed quickly, however, after the show, as the two men continued their unofficial debate in the waiting room.

By 2000, Grey predicted, he no longer will have to serve as a field general in the national campaign to stop the spread of gambling.

By then, the backlash against casinos will be so large it will become an issue in the presidential race, he insisted.

Our next president, whether a Democrat or Republican, Grey added, will come out publicly against gambling.

Fahrenkopf scoffed at the prediction.

Grey, however, said the groundwork is being laid to make gambling an issue as early as the 2000 Iowa caucuses.

Whether such a strategy actually materializes remains to be seen.

In the meantime, the fight over gaming lives on.

After 10 minutes more in the waiting room, Fahrenkopf and Grey left CNN, but they continued to argue in the elevator and then the lobby.

Finally, it was out the door onto Michigan Avenue in search of the next battlefield.

Richard Bunker, president of the Nevada Resort Association, never made it here to observe the Gambling Impact Study Commission in action.

Bunker has a major crisis on his hands in Las Vegas.

The NRA, the political arm of the casino industry in Nevada, is said to be split on whether to help fight a California initiative that could allow Indian tribes to expand their casinos throughout the state, including Southern California.

The rift is a hot topic of discussion here.

If the ballot question passes, it could be devastating to Las Vegas, which relies heavily on Southern California tourists for business.

The likes of Circus Circus Enterprises, Hilton Hotels Corp. and Mirage Resorts Inc. are pushing the NRA to spend money to battle the initiative.

But Harrah's Entertainment and others are said to want to stay out of the fight.

An emergency NRA meeting has been called today.

This is a big-time split within the ranks of Nevada's casino industry, friends.

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